welcome back and next we have a fireside chat with YC's Jared Friedman and Ivana dreadich yeah let's give them both a big round of applause Ivana is the founder and founding CEO of Asher bio uh before we get started go go ahead and take a seat but before we get started I wanted to introduce a little bit uh you to Jared for those of you who don't know him yet so Jared is one of the major forces behind the launching and growing of the YC bio Community he's worked closely with the YC bio startups for many years and in 2019 he wrote a piece on what the next 10 years of startup bio fundraising would look like and Jared and this piece that he wrote has very heavily influenced YC's own philosophy on bio and Healthcare startups and particularly particularly our emphasis on founder-led bio so if you haven't read it I'm going to be tweeting it out so you can take a look at it and read it later um but also Let's uh welcome Ivana so Jared worked closely with Ivana from Asher bio in build and Asher bio is building better immunotherapies they went through the YC batch in summer 2019 and have since raised a 108 million dollar series B so let's welcome Ivana and Jared [Applause] thank you Kat that intro was uh way too kind as usual but I what I'm what I'm really excited about today is for you all to get to hear the story of Asher bio because it is an incredible story and very few people have ever heard it because Ivana and her co-founder Andy are very modest people so I'm going to see if I can pull this story out of them because it's such a good story so um Ivana to start with how would you just tell everybody like what Azure bio is well as you just heard from cat this is our yc1 liner Asher bio builds better immunotherapies for patients uh and uh specifically we are focused on immunotherapies that are based on natural proteins called cytokines which can be very powerful therapies and can turn on your own immune system to fight cancer however when they are administered in their natural form to patients systemically they end up activating all of the different immune cells that make up our immune system not just the parts that fight cancer and activating the wrong immune cells can cause severe side effects and can really limit the usefulness of these drugs and so what we're doing is activating only the correct immune cells like those that kill cancer without the severe side effects and this is really one of the biggest challenges and problems in the immunotherapy field right getting a precise and selective immunotherapies so we're using a developing protein engineering Technologies uh that enable us to develop cytokines that activate only the cells that matter we light up only the cells that matter and thereby achieve better safer and more effective Therapeutics so that that that's what we do yeah all right yeah excellent one-liner work there um okay so Ivana I know you're naturally a very modest person but I want you to turn off the modesty for just a moment and tell everybody sort of like what the current state of Asher bio is and what you guys have accomplished in just the last three years since you started the company yeah all right so as as you heard from cat we have raised where series B Stage Company we uh last year we raised 108 million dollar series B round which was led by a household name investor Wellington Management we are now over 50 employees a majority are still research and pre-clinical but we're rapidly expanding our clinical group and that's because any day now we're expecting to treat our first patient patient with a drug that we conceived when we were back at UIC a little over three years ago and not only that we do have a second drug that we developed in the last couple of years that is closely following behind and we have been working on a pipeline of these targeted cytokines and other immunotherapies uh and we hope to have more uh drugs to follow awesome this is actually the first that I heard that you're about to about to actually go and go into Clinic that's amazing hoping by the end of the year yeah oh wow incredible um okay so let's actually rewind back to the very beginning like long before you started Asher um you have a really interesting personal background how would you tell people sort of like um what what your story is where you grew up and how you ended up in this industry yeah uh well I I grew up in Montenegro so a small country of Montenegro and I I came to uh the United yes to do to the US to do a PhD so I completed my PhD training at Harvard Medical School uh in Immunology I did a short post-doc after that uh before realizing that I really wanted to be closer to treating patients and not working on non-coding rnas which I guess today could think of them as potential Therapeutics uh uh and so uh I spent about 10 years in Industry um and uh mostly working in the area of cancer cancer drug Innovation I was on the East Coast at cell Gene developing cell therapies and then I moved to the West Coast where I took on a position at Pfizer and in their cancer Immunology group I led a group that was really at the Forefront of immunotherapy research I collaborated with protein engineering very closely which is where I met my co-founder Andy young and also got to see a lot of emerging technology allergies from companies that were pitching to Pfizer and so I really was able to get a good view of the field and where the needs are in immunotherapies and to help people about like the origins of azure bio like how you guys first started thinking about the you know the ideas and the science behind it and then like how you and Andy decided that maybe you would actually turn this thing into a company so and I have to I have to admit that you know I when I started industry I always had this idea in the back of my mind that I wanted to do something independently and I think Andy did as well we just you know worked we had our nice stable jobs and we were learning a ton uh and you know there's always that high energy activation barrier right when when you know to leaving your your stable uh stable position and doing something risky even if you found it very exciting and so um I think what enabled us to break out as entrepreneurs was partly driven by you know Pfizer's decision to relocate one our the site that we were working at from South San Francisco to a different location and and uh so San Diego okay back then there was no work from home you had to you know move to San Diego and so it was we were faced with this decision of whether to leave to move or with the company or or just look for another job in the area and I think uh even with this sort of a push I think it was not an easy decision but I think what made it feel right were three things one was we were just really excited to work on developing safer more selective cytokines and we I just couldn't imagine myself working on anything else I thought this was the the next best thing and I thought that you know we were sort of developing this vision of targeting only the cells that matter and we thought wow you could apply this not only in cancer but it could be really in any other disease where immune system plays a role and so you know we thought this this could be big so we're excited by the idea I think then realizing that to get something like this done it you know the execution and the decision making you know it's just going to be much faster in a smaller team you if you really wanted to make that happen it kind of needed to be outside of a big farm uh and lastly which probably is probably the most important is having that small team right so you know having the right co-founder and the right early scientists so about five scientists uh joined us from Pfizer on that that early Venture uh you know we all sort of share that same entrepreneurial spirit and uh had built up great Rapport and so we were convinced that uh we were the right the team with the right expertise to tackle this problem okay so let's walk through the timeline so it's early 2019 you and Andy are working at Pfizer hey there groups at what point did Pfizer like order you to move to San Diego so I think it was the end of 18 early 19 right and you know we ended up staying for a few months to wrap up our our just opportunity our responsibilities so we left in March uh and uh we started talking to people I mean luckily we were in this area you're just surrounded by a people with a lot of experience and entrepreneurs and uh we you know back then we didn't we just had our experience with our small team we had some ideas and like this General Vision of what we thought could could be developed as a company um but that was it and and we didn't have connections with any major biotech VCS or uh or other investors and as we were talking to other entrepreneurs it became clear that would be hard to raise a large round that is sufficient to really take these things into the clinic and so we realized you needed a smaller fund this is a smaller funding right to be able to get some data to convince people that you know you have something of value that could have potential right so so that's and then we ended up honing in on okay so where we where could we get these small rounds and we heard about why combinator I think it was in April and we spent all of April in a Starbucks September and overwriting our application alongside provisional patent applications that are putting our ideas down and it's just very important you get it protected before you start talking to investors and and then in yes in in may we incorporated uh the company probably just to try to get into YC because we heard it would be better to be incorporated to get into IC and you interviewed at ycee in May I guess yes right and you got accepted we did and it was just yeah it was it was pretty amazing that after 15 minutes somebody just believes in you and gives you even though yes we spent one month writing that application okay so you left Pfizer in March you wrote the application in April you got into YC in May and you started YC in June by the end of YC just three months after like starting to work on this thing what did you accomplish in just the like three months since then this is like pretty amazing which is why I want to call call attention to it so we ended up uh going developing one of our molecules from an idea on paper uh to treating in mice and yes I know looking back it does sound impossible but then reflecting on why why we were able to do it I think uh it was that combination of the right expertise right we ended up you know our small team really just had you know the right expertise to execute on these experiments but the second piece was obviously just getting the YC funding after 15 minutes of the interview right and then being able to hit the ground running the next day literally the next day we were able to get off the wait list for uh in from in an oversubscribed lab incubator and get that first lab bench uh just because we got we had ycnn behind us uh and uh we then used our YC Grant to stock up on equipment small used equipment and reagents you'd be surprised how many companies you know can when they're closing down or moving you know end up giving you uh things for free and so we we got a lot of stuff for free or cheap we stocked up our lab and started started doing experiments we also ended up renting a small space in a mouse facility where we could run our own Mouse studies versus sort of Outsourcing them and having a contract research organ organization right run run these studies which is much more expensive it takes more time so so yeah so I think being able to hit the ground running having the right expertise we completed that full cycle for one of these early molecules from design testing it in vitro showing that is indeed more selective a thousand times more selective than a state-of-the-art drug and then being able to put that early prototype into one Mouse study and and show that it it worked it had it worked better than a state-of-the-art drug and it didn't cause side effects and I think that really highlighted the value that was an early prototype I had highlighted the value and the potential of the platform yeah pretty pretty exceptional I also I see also seem to recall that you you recruited some of your like former co-workers to like come and work for you for free all summer long that was your idea the hottest director how to how to entice uh so yes we had that we were lucky enough to to have five scientists in addition to Andy and myself join us uh and again uh 150 000 back then that was the size of the YC Grant it doesn't you know it's not a lot it doesn't go very far and we knew that we needed to get something some data in three months and so uh what we did is is sort of the promise hey let's do this uh you know and and we'll we'll structure the equity in a way that it can be an incentive and thank you by the way for for teaching us how to do that uh and uh and uh yeah we spent that money on experiments yeah and okay so we get to the end of YC you've done this like pretty extraordinary like accomplishment which is you've gone from an idea to actually really promising in Vivo data in just three months um and now you need to raise money from investors and today of course you've raised you know over 100 million dollars from investors but um I'd love to hear the story um both of of how you did that both the initial fundraising round right after demo day and then the subsequent rounds after that yeah absolutely yeah so I'll touch upon demo Day first because that was such a fantastic experience we worked a lot with Partners on perfecting our pitch you know about probably practiced it a hundred times uh the day before and and went through all the lines I think version 45 became the final uh final version uh and it was great there's a lot of we got a lot of likes you know we were just very excited uh and uh you know we started fundraising after that and expecting that things will go really well because Sergeant we had a great story we had great data we didn't spend a lot of time working on the pitch deck during our YC batch because most of the time we were working in the lab or spending time advice even sense talking to people talk which was really important was part of the part of the experience and taught us a lot but there was not enough time to to do the pitch that was sort of working on the pitch deck at the same time as we were pitching to investors and of course Andy and I being scientists you know we put all of our data into pitch decks graphs protein structures Etc and uh you know the decks were more like presenting to Pfizer's research committee rather than a non-bio investors and Angel Investors and so you know I think it was it was going slow but uh but and then daryn was like what's going on why are you guys not raising like Millions you know to expose demo day until he saw our pitch deck like okay so you know we worked through our pitch deck and we ended up creating two one for Bio investors with a little more detail and and one for other investors um and and then things things started uh working after that so I think pretty soon after that we raised about a million our Target was 3 million and that's what was required for us to finalize the first program or the first molecule um yeah so that was quite quite a surprise and but I think what we did is we just we just ended up refocusing said okay what can we do to a million how can that take us to the next inflection point and we kept going we just kept doing experiments kept talking to people you just never know when someone is going to introduce you to the right investor uh and you know we took a lot of no's but I think um uh you know we kept going so that that was really important and uh someone unrelated to YC you know we talked to a lot of people anybody that that that we we could uh introduced us to this big biotech investor third uh Third Rock Ventures and that's uh I think where we ended up making a bit of a risky decision you know when you're a entrepreneur early founder you know you're kind of protective of your data you don't tell investors everything you kind of you know you know you have this uh a feeling that you know you don't want to tell them everything right understandably so but once we met Third Rock we just felt like it was the right investor that they were able they were getting how excited and they were getting excited about our technology as well and so we just decided tell them everything give them all our you know tell them all of these different things that we're thinking about doing all of our ideas and just really focus on them and you know now looking back I think it was the right decision because they ended up being a great partner in helping us build uh this technology and build our company we ended up securing a seed round we ended up getting to that three million three and a half million uh and a series a around as well so uh so that was that was that uh kind of the first part and uh after after the series a I think we were able to expand our research team expand our executive team and uh generate even more data that then enabled us to secure the next round I think it's a great lesson in there that like sometimes even when you have incredible results fundraising doesn't go according to plan and you have to be nimble and flexible as a founder and work with what you have and that's exactly what you guys did which is what ended up opening up the Third Rock opportunity of few months later yeah um tell us a bit about what's happened since YC like you guys have had to learn how to build a whole company how to go from sort of being scientists to being managers and haters of the company to tell us about that absolutely yeah so I think so Andy and I really wanted to stay close to science because we were you know really pioneering developing this new approach I can tell you know for some of you that are in this area it's called CIS targeting of cytokines and not a whole lot of people are out there that that knew how to do this so we stay close to science and we were focused on bringing in other scientists that we could really mentor and and sort of you know transfer all of this knowledge and ideas and that was a major Focus for us uh really growing the research group and I'm pretty excited that today we have uh Rick astellar group of of uh rising stars and Drug developers very very proud that that be one big thing that I highlighted we continue to work fast we are in a competitive space in particular with the first program that we chose it's an il-2 and so we continue to to work fast towards filing an IND and going getting to manufacturing and et cetera yeah so those would be the the two things that we were really focused on yeah so one theme from today has been how to move fast as a bio and Healthcare Company despite the like external forces that make it hard to do that we heard that from today at othellis earlier and then from your story going through the batch how have you been able to sort of keep that up now that you have this 55 person team and um a lot of forces trying to slow you down so maybe I'll go back to one point that I that I didn't hit earlier which is sort of had to move fast is is taking small calculated risks so when we went uh through YC you know we were sort of working backwards from demo day what did we have to accomplish uh by demo day and then you know we if if we wanted a mouse efficacy anti-tumor efficacy data at this time we would have to inject mice with tumors at this time and then the proteins would have to be ready at this time so we sort of work backwards and we really ensure that we stuck to these timelines and we did the things at risk like we implanted mice with tumors even though our molecules weren't ready because if we didn't plant them that day you know we wouldn't be able to have that data by demo day right and so you know but tumors grow for another 10 days and so in those 10 days we were able to create or to to come up with or develop molecules that that we could then inject into mice so you know took some small risks but in the end it paid off and we kept doing that for example The Next Step was to going to Prime made studies and so we ended up again booking primate studies because they take a while to book ahead of time before we knew that we we actually had something to put in in in in primates and so that's uh how we worked initially and and I think it's important to continue you know taking these small some maybe bigger calculated risks as you as you go forward in order to to to stay fast uh I think what also was important is when we recruited people it was always people that were as passionate about this approach as we are and so that's a Common Thread right that they really once they got it they they really thought wow you could do a lot of things I could get a lot of programs using the similar approach of targeting the cells that matter yeah yeah that's I I remember being really impressed that you guys had made that decision during YC to implant tumors in mice because you were so confident that you would be able to actually make the drug in the next week with a very narrow window of time to hit that that was when I think I knew that and they weren't perfect drugs so it was important not to be perfect something else I I wanted to mention is you know we had several different ideas and there was like our favorite idea which we were working on which ended up being quite challenging and it looked like that was just not going to be possible for eight months so then we you know pivoted and started working on another molecule uh which was our top you know not our Top Choice but it ended up giving us really nice data and that is the molecule that we're now putting into patients so now when we have more funding you know we could go back to these more challenging through molecules and and work on those yeah all right so this has been incredible story um last question for you is um there might be some people in the audience who are in sort of a similar position that you and Andy were in when you were at Pfizer who were thinking about whether they want to go and embark on a journey like this what advice would you have for people like that or for your former selves yeah so I think I would say take a leap of faith and and to pursue uh your passion and you know either in science or Building Company or whatever you're interested in and and really don't be afraid to uh to work on big problems Big Ideas because that that's really important and then once you're committed to that path you know you have to you have to stay on it it's going to be a long path and there's going to be a lot of ups and downs and you just have to continue if you you know you're going to get Negative data and you know one experiment doesn't kill a company it might kill that idea but it doesn't kill the company and so you just have to continue and and um it could continue sort of taking these risks to accelerate value creation right think about the next inflection points always uh and then be overly confident with investors there's really no reason to be shy if you are true to your science uh as Andy and I were in the beginning and uh you know you're you're you're trying to make you're trying to build a company and so there's really no reason to be not not overly confident yeah yeah that's awesome Yvonne thank you so much [Music]